The Conditionalist Faith of Our Fathers, vol. 1

CHAPTER NINETEEN: Paul’s Other Problem Passages

I. (2 Corinthians 12:2-4): Paul’s Vision—“In ... or Out of the Body”

In 2 Corinthians 12:1-4, Paul speaks of being caught up into the third heaven, where he heard unspeakable words. It is frequently alleged that this passage or episode furnishes an example of a human soul, or spirit, actually existing or traveling in a conscious, perceptive condition outside of the body, seeing transcendent sights and hearing unspeakable words, thus gathering heavenly information, and then returning to resume its abode in the temporarily deserted body. But Paul plainly declares that this was a “vision,” or “revelation” (2 Corinthians 12:1). Surely the vision of a prophet does not prove consciousness in death. CFF1 348.1

1. EXACT SPECIFICATIONS OF PASSAGE

Here is the passage in full: CFF1 348.2

“It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, ¹ (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) how that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful [ouk exon, “possible,” or “proper”] for a man to utter.” CFF1 348.3

It will be observed that there is not a word in the passage about the soul of Paul leaving the body to visit Paradise. Paul was still very much alive. So the text proves nothing pro or con as to the soul’s separate existence after death, for he had not died. Paul says he knew a “man” in Christ, not a spirit, how “he” was “caught up.” But Paul himself was obviously the “man” that he knew. It was a personal experience in his own life. However, it was a man, not the soul of a man. CFF1 348.4

Paradise is here equated with the third heaven, where the tree of life is (Revelation 2:7; Revelation 22:2). So Paul was carried away, in vision, to Paradise, just as John was later, while imprisoned on the Isle of Patmos. Paul plainly denominates it a “vision.” CFF1 349.1

2. VISIONS PRODUCED BY AGENCY OF HOLY SPIRIT

Visions are produced through the agency of the Holy Spirit, while men are living. Thus of Ezekiel the Scripture record is: CFF1 349.2

“And the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven, and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north” (Ezekiel 8:3). CFF1 349.3

“Afterwards the spirit took me up, and brought me in a vision by the Spirit of God into Chaldea, to them of the captivity” (Ezekiel 11:24). CFF1 349.4

The question unavoidably arises, Could not the Spirit have similarly conveyed Paul, as well as Ezekiel? Then there was John, just mentioned, on the Isle of Patmos, who wrote: “So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast” (Revelation 17:3). CFF1 349.5

These experiences took place while these men were alive in the earthly service of God, and were seen through the ecstasy of vision, with the mind under the supernatural control of the Holy Spirit. They therefore prove nothing about the condition of the dead, and have nothing to do with death. There is therefore not a scintilla of proof from this passage for consciousness of the soul between death and the resurrection. It is to be remembered that Paul frequently recorded personal communications from God through visions (Acts 9:4-6; Acts 16:9; Acts 18:9; Acts 22:17, 18; Acts 23:11; Acts 27:23, 24; Galatians 2:2). This was no exception. CFF1 349.6

As to the expression, “in the body,” or “out,” there was complete absence of sensibility to earthly surroundings. The third, or highest, Heaven, or Paradise (2 Corinthians 12:4), where God is, has frequently been seen in vision by various prophets. And, as generally recognized, the first heaven is the atmosphere; the second that of the starry heavens; the third the abode of God and heavenly beings. But let us look more closely into the matter of the visions of the prophets. CFF1 349.7

Picture 1: The March of Nations:
In the Divine Pageant of History the March of Nations Is Nearing the End of the Age, When the Last Things Will Occur, Toward Which All Humanity Moves.
Page 350

3. “VISIONS” INSEPARABLE PART OF PROPHETIC ROLE

Through Moses, the Lord said of the prophet, “I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision” (Numbers 12:6). And Job said that “in a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men .... then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction” (Job 33:15, 16). The prophets of old had visions as an inseparable part of the prophetic role—Abraham, Moses, Joshua, Samuel, Iddo, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Amos, Obadiah, Nahum, Habakkuk, and Zechariah. The same is true in the New Testament, such as with Stephen, Paul, Peter, and John. Going back, take the prophet Daniel for example: CFF1 350.1

And in the New Testament we read: CFF1 351.1

But note particularly John the revelator. Practically the entire Apocalypse was presented to John in vision. Just observe: In Revelation 9:17 John said, “I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them.” And in a series of unparalleled views John saw Christ amid the golden candlesticks, the twenty-four elders, the seven lamps, the sea of glass, the four living creatures, the sealed book, the seven seals, the sealing, the seven trumpets, the temple, the two witnesses, the beasts, the woman, the dragon, the flying angels, Babylon’s fall, the seven vials, the Second Advent, the harvest, the two resurrections, the binding of Satan and his loosing, the lake of fire, the destruction of death and hades, the New Jerusalem, and the new heaven and the new earth, with the river and tree of life in the Paradise of God—constituting a matchless over-all panorama of the plan of salvation and its triumph. That is the scope of the “visions” of God to the seer of Patmos. CFF1 351.2

4. PAUL’S VISION OF HEAVEN MATCHED BY ISAIAH, DANIEL, JOHN

Specifically, Isaiah “saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple” (Isaiah 6:1). Daniel also saw the throne of the Most High in Heaven and the coming judgment scenes: CFF1 351.3

“I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened” (Daniel 7:9, 10). CFF1 352.1

“I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him” (Daniel 7:13, 14). CFF1 352.2

John the revelator likewise specifically saw the “throne” of God in Heaven, with the tree of life overspreading the river of life in the New Jerusalem (Revelation 22:1, 2). The question, then, is inescapable and unanswerable: If Isaiah, Daniel, and John all saw the throne of God in Heaven, and heard words spoken there in vision, why could not Paul, likewise in vision, see and hear, without involving the extraneous claim of his soul’s actually leaving his body? Isaiah, Daniel, and John were living men, albeit prophets, and continued to live and work on after their visions. Why then was not Paul the prophet functioning in the same way, according to the specified method and pattern of visions? CFF1 352.3

5. ABSURDITY OF “SOUL’S SEPARATION” THEORY

This Pauline passage expressly concerns “visions” and “revelations” received from the Lord. This particular “vision” was evidently the most remarkable Paul ever experienced. He was given a view of “paradise,” in the “third heaven.” It was so real, so alive and vivid, that he could not tell whether he had been transported bodily to Paradise or whether it was in reality merely a vision, presented before his mind by the Holy Spirit. CFF1 352.4

Two possibilities only are brought to view by the text—either actual transportation to Paradise or the viewing of Heaven in vision. But notice the involvements either way: (1) If Paul was taken to Paradise alive, then he was not dead, and the episode would have no bearing on the question of consciousness in death. (2) And if it were, instead, a “vision,” common to prophets throughout Old Testament times, neither would that prove consciousness in death, for Paul was alive at the time. In either case, it does not support the Immortal-Soulist theory. CFF1 352.5

6. PREPOSTEROUS CONCLUSIONS INVOLVED

The question at issue is reduced to one point: What is the meaning of the expression, “out of the body”? As stated, modern Immortal-Soulists assert that it is the immortal soul, or spirit, going out from the body—soul travel—and its existence for a time in a separate, conscious, perceptive condition, independent of, and apart from, the body. But note what such an allegation involves. CFF1 353.1

According to the view of such proponents, the separation of the soul from the body takes place at death—the customary definition of death. In fact, in their view there can be no separation of soul from body, without death resulting. CFF1 353.2

But would anyone contend that Paul did not know whether he had died, and had had a resurrection? Yet that would have had to happen if the words “out of the body” meant a transaerial flight of Paul’s soul to Paradise and back. It would mean that his soul went off to the “third heaven” while his body lay in Tarsus (or wherever it was)—a corpse upon the earth. And when Paul’s “soul” returned, he must have undergone a restoration from the dead. Such a presumption is, of course, untenable. Therefore, “out of the body” obviously does not mean entrance of the separated body into a temporary state of death. CFF1 353.3

The expression simply means that Paul had a “vision”—a condition in which to his mind, controlled by the Spirit during the time of the vision, were presented scenes so realistic that he seemed to be there in person, viewing the actual spectacle itself and hearing the graphic words spoken. CFF1 353.4

It is to be remembered that vivid, realistic, natural dreams crudely illustrate how this could be. The case of John the Beloved in Revelation 17 is a striking example. He seemed to be present, viewing events wholly future, and which could not have been contemporaneous—for they were restricted to the “last days” of time. Meantime, John was all the while alive bodily on Patmos. Similarly with Paul. CFF1 353.5

To understand with certainty the revealed message of God on any given topic or passage of Scripture, one needs to have before him all the pertinent statements and principles of the Word bearing on the subject. And the true conclusion will always be one that fits every important statement and underlying principle without forcing the language, or the thought—just as a key will be recognized as the right one when it penetrates and turns a given lock without forcing any of its various wards. So with God’s Word. When a key is found that harmoniously explains every expression of a given passage, without forcing the language or twisting the meaning, one may know that he has found the true interpretative key. CFF1 354.1

The tragedy is that some, instead of following Scripture, seek to compel Scripture to follow them, putting the figurative for the literal or the literal for the figurative—or construing an isolated text in opposition to the fundamental teaching of Scripture in general, and to Paul in particular in the instance we are about to examine. CFF1 355.1

Surely every truth lover will agree that it is far more important to maintain the harmony of the Sacred Writings than to defend a dogma at all costs, even to involving the Scriptures in fatal contradiction. We must always interpret the uncertain by the certain, and not vice versa. And always in accordance with the Word. “To the law and to the testimony,” if they are made to speak out of accord with this Word, it is because there is no true light in the exposition (Isaiah 8:20). CFF1 355.2

2. PASSAGE REGARDED AS BULWARK OF IMMORTAL-SOULISM

Paul does not, however, indicate that it is his “soul” or “spirit” that would depart. The “I” of his desire and the “my” of his departure indicate the whole person. He here makes no separation of body and soul. It is to be conceded that if this expression stood alone, it might give that impression. But it does not stand alone. It must be understood in the light of Paul’s teaching elsewhere that death is a “sleep,” and that reunion with Christ takes place at, and only at, the Second Advent and its attendant resurrection, or translation—and not before. CFF1 355.3

Paul’s desire “to depart, and to be with Christ” must receive its interpretation from Paul’s own fuller terms of specification elsewhere recorded. When rightly understood the testimony of Scripture will be harmonious, and never selfcontradictory. But the Immortal-Soulist claim is that a person, by his immortal spirit, goes immediately at death to be with the Lord. That, however, is contrary to Paul’s own explicit explanation in 1 Thessalonians 4, which stipulates an entirely different manner of entry into Christ’s presence, by an altogether different and wholly contrary means. CFF1 356.1

3. THE PROBLEM PASSAGE IN ITS ENTIRETY

Here is the text of this famous “depart, and be with Christ” passage in Philippians: CFF1 356.2

“According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death. For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot [gnorizo, “declare”] not. For I am in a strait [sunechomai, “being pressed”] betwixt [the] two [living and dying, having a desire to depart [analusai, “return”], and to be with Christ; which is far better: nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you” (Philippians 1:20-24). CFF1 356.3

But first, let us get the historical setting and circumstances for this unique epistle and this particular passage. CFF1 356.4

4. HISTORICAL BACKGROUND FOR PHILIPPIAN EPISTLE

The background for Paul’s famous Philippian problem passage is this: Some ten years had passed since Paul had preached the gospel at Philippi. During his third missionary journey Paul was beaten by a mob at Jerusalem and brought before the Sanhedrin (Acts 22:30). Paul there skillfully divided the opposing Pharisees and Sadducees by referring to the doctrine of the resurrection. He was then sent, under duress, to Felix the governor. But his trial was deferred for two years, being resumed under Festus in A.D. 59. Paul then appealed to Caesar, and Festus ordered him sent to Rome for trial. CFF1 356.5

Paul determined that under all circumstances Christ should be magnified in his “body,” whether by his life or by his death. Life and death are here tied in, by Paul, with his body, not primarily his soul, or spirit. There is not a word in the entire recital about a separate soul or discarnate spirit. If Paul meant that his real, inner self was a conscious immortal soul, which would leave the body at death to go to be with the Lord, then, we ask, why did he not once say so some place in the one hundred chapters of his various epistles—comprising more than a third of the entire New Testament. But let us pause a moment for two texts. CFF1 357.1

Paul expressly declared, “I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you” (Acts 20:20). He did keep back, however, everything concerning any disembodied immortal soul or spirit. Such a Platonic concept he evidently did not consider “profitable” for the church. Again, he said, “I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God” (Acts 20:27). But he never uttered a single syllable about an immortal soul or a deathless spirit in man. CFF1 357.2

Consequently, such a notion cannot be considered as any part of the “counsel of God.” And Paul must be permitted to be in harmony with himself. This pre-eminent apostle would never stoop to being double in his language or deceitful in his witness. He placed his entire hope on resurrection or translation as the sole, conjoined gateway to glory. CFF1 357.3

6. PAUL’S “SO” PRECLUDES EVERY OTHER MEANS

To the Thessalonians he wrote of this in its inseparable relation to the Second Advent: CFF1 357.4

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain [at the Advent] shall be caught up together with them [the resurrected saints] in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord” (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17). CFF1 357.5

The “so” (houtos), which is emphatic in the original, emphasizes the fact that not by our dying but by our Lord’s descending from Heaven, at His second advent, shall both the living saints and the sleeping saints enter the Lord’s presence together in the grand home going. “So” means “in this way,” “in this manner,” “by this means.” That is how we shall ever “be with the Lord.” Therefore, when Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17 describes the sole way and precise method by which we are to go to be with the Lord, he thereby precludes every other means. There is no other way save by (1) resurrection, or (2) translation. If there is, then Paul’s language is misleading and untrue. CFF1 359.1

If we go to be with the Lord by means of our immortal spirit when we die, then we do not go by means of, and at, His visible coming and the miraculous resurrection of the dead and the translation change of the living. In such an event Paul is made to falsify and deceive. There is no way to avoid such a conclusion. It must be clear that the descent of the Lord from Heaven, the mighty shout, the voice of the archangel, the sound of the trump of God—and the resurrection of the dead, or the change of the living—do not take place at death. CFF1 359.2